Texans FA's
 

Decided to make a thread for the FA's. It looks all of ours are hitting the market. Not good for the OL. Here's recent tweet RE: Mario...

Adam Schefter ‏ - @AdamSchefter::::
Free agent defensive end Mario Williams plans to visit the Buffalo Bills tonight
(3/13/12)

Yep, looks like all our FA have decided to test the market. and why not.

I was wondering what kind of money that a #2 WR would get, you know, someone like Garcon. Well, that market has been set by Garcon, to the tune of 5 yrs, $42.5MM with $21 gtd as he signs with the Skins.

Maybe Jacoby wasn't so bad afterall :rolleyes:
Don't see us playing in that game.

All FAs are overpaid. That's why I didn't get the idea that we should dump Mario to overpay someone else on the FA market.

Ruh roh » RT @ShawnZobel_DHQ: Green Bay is talking to Houston center Chris Myers to replace Wells -- BigRon (@BigRon281)

Why not? They were talking with him a week ago, why not keep talking now?

:eek:From SI:

How badly do the Buffalo Bills want to sign free-agent defensive end Mario Williams? Here’s how badly — according to Mark Gaughan of Buffalo News, the team is committed to making Williams the top-paid defensive player in the NFL.

That’s a lofty goal. The Chicago Bears signed Julius Peppers for six years and $91.5 million in 2010, with over half that money guaranteed. But the Bills are dying to sign Williams, the two-time Pro Bowler with 53 career sacks to his name.


http://tracking.si.com/2012/03/14/re...ms/?xid=si_nfl

OK so this guy goes out and blows all of his cash plus going deeply into debt to purchase a brand new Maserati leaving himself without even enough money to make his mortgage payment so that his house is now repossessed and he's no longer got a house (with a garage) to park his brand new prize vehicle. Is this what Rick Smith has done, put himself in a crappy neighborhood in a rental and his new car parked out in front on the curb, and if so how could he make such a
miscalculation ?

I think with new cba it is more like your at an auction and several buyers are willing to overpay. Good for good players. Probably not good for the average of 500 plus FA this year.

I think it was LZ who tweeted that the Texans are in cap hell right now. What I don't understand is how. OK, that's not entirely accurate, I do somewhat understand how but it shouldn't be the case. If you were to make a list of the most important/best guys on this team, I suspect that, in random order, it would look something like this:

Arian Foster
Andre Johnson
Duane Brown
Brian Cushing
Johnathan Joseph
J.J. Watt
Mario Williams
Chris Myers
Matt Schaub
Connor Barwin
Owen Daniels
Brooks Reed

Of that list, 5 are still on their rookie contracts and are considerably underpaid (especially the late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders). And Foster was in that camp as of last week as well. 2 are free agents right now (Myers and Mario) with several more to become free agents next year (Brown, Schaub, Barwin).

To date, the core of our team has been very cheap and virtually none of them are locked up long term. The Texans should be in a great cap situation. With the exception of Joseph, AJ, and now Foster, they were getting all of their good players on the cheap. Unfortunately, the warm fuzzies produced by this season are starting to wear off and I may be returning to my pessimistic ways.

But that's nothing new, it's always been the case where there's a team or two which would over pay for a certain free agent. It seems to me that it's part of the GMs job to anticipate that and lock up his key players before they have a chance to hit free agency ?
Unless you think that Rick Smith believes he can plug just anybody into the Texans' zone-blocking OLine and make it work, it's a disaster if he's misjudged this free agency so badly that the Texans lose 60 % of their OLine in this offseason.

And you can add into the equation that AJ has renegotiated twice to help out the cap situation. I don't get it either. Where is this $$ being spent? OD re-signed recently and I guess they had to pay well for A. Smith, but come on, it's not like this roster is studded with high-priced vets and FAs.

Now, I'm not down on Smith or the Texans for not being players in FA this year. I'm glad they're not, actually. However, I'm HUGELY down on him for getting us into this situation and possibly losing some of our key guys (OL). These are guys that are on the 'lower-end' payscale by NFL standards. Even worse is the fact next year is going to be downright scary if they can't figure it out. We have some big names coming up for new contracts. D. Brown alone is going to get a king's ransom.

Ben Tate on the move? http://t.co/5IK60yQn -- Dave Richard (@daverichard)

Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

Dunno, was surprised to see that. IF they have to retool the O-line, draft may be the only thing we can afford. CLE does have 2 1s.....

Ben Tate's agent has told me he can't confirm/deny there have been trade negotiations w/ his client, but it "wouldn't surprise me" he says -- Keith Britton (@KeithBritton86)

Tate and our #26 for #4? Blackmon/Claiborne/or Kalil @ #4 and use our #2 on LaMicheal James - or OL and Peed w/#3? :) It would make sense trying to get something big for Tate. Value is high and he's probably none too happy with the Foster deal.

Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

Admittedly, my cap knowledge is limited to say the least. However, I seem to recall it being known once the new CBA was completed that the cap would be fairly stagnant the first 2 years into the deal; i.e., 2011 and 2012. I may not be remembering this correctly though.

In any event, my biggest complaint is that of our top 12 players (or at least, my rough estimation of them), about half are underpaid, 2 are free agents this year and 3 are free agents next year. How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

[QUOTE=Keith;29626]Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now. [QUOTE]

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.

If they want to extend anyone, I would think they would look at Antonio. He's solid, and I believe has 2 years left.

Also, remember all those restructures from last year to get JJoe and DManning? They dumped '11 money into '12, and ......Well, here we are.

Totally agree with this. I'm actually stunned they haven't extended anyone at this point, especially Schaub. Save for Foster, it amazes me how this franchise waits until the witching hour to re-sign the guys you know they want to keep.

BTW, new tweet:
Liz Mullen‏ @SBJLizMullen -
Texans free agent Center Chris Myers is going to visit the Tennessee Titans tomorrow.

Just think how fun this offseason will be if the Titans sign Manning and Myers.

Unless Tennessee is running a zone scheme I almost hope they overpay Meyers. He will get pushed around in any traditional scheme.

The problem is when you win teams start overpaying for your guys because you made them look good. Aside from Duane brown I think OL are more plug and play than RBs in our offense.

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

Exactly. When you successfully create one of the most talented rosters, you are going to have one of the most expensive. It is why teams like Indy and NE have bled talent for years. It is far harder to stay talented than to get talented.

Oh, I agree totally with this reasoning, just implying that McNair's praise of Schaub and reasoning for not pursuing Manning rings hollow when most teams who love their QB probably don't let him dangle in the final contract year when he realistically has several productive years left in his body.

Reality is yeah, I am nervous as heck investing in Schaub given his injury history and more immediately just how healthy he even is right now. With him healthy, this is a Super Bowl team.

The brittle tag on Schaub has often been too harsh, but missed games are missed games, and Schaub has missed a lot.

In all seriousness, I truly believe that the Texans have an offer on the table for Mario, if/when he signs with Buffalo, these funds will be immediately diverted to Myers. Not saying I agree with thier priority, but I think that was what they are thinking.

The problem with all of this is timing. As we saw last year, Smith was quick to dump the Aso chase and deal with JJoe. IMO, we are in a better spot this year, as Myers likely wants to return. Hopefully, it will work out like this.

My glass is still half full......for now. ;)

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

Those would be my 2 questions too. I cannot imagine JJ surviving and certainly cannot understand dumping a very reliable Winston instead of the flaky JJ.

It could be that is all part of thier "plan" for if/when they need the space. Why push funds around unless you need to?

Maybe...I dunno. Just thinking outloud in a somewhat positive manner.

Not sure how accurate the info is, but LZ reported yesterday that Demeco's actual 2012 cap savings if he were to be cut would only be ~$1MM. If that's the case, why cut him? Seems there would be better places to save.

JJ and Walter on the other hand... I think both of those guys combined would be ~$7MM. I'd cut both and hope you can find a rookie or cheap vet FA late in camp (maybe Santana Moss?) for the vet minimum.

BTW, if you heard McNair on the 610 yesterday, he made a comment to the effect of "we'd love to re-sign our players, but we're going to let them test the waters and let the market determine their value".

Vickers a Cowpie...

Mark Berman‏ @MarkBermanFox26 -
Free agent FB Lawrence Vickers signs with the Cowboys.

----------------------------------
EDIT: In other news.... Ugh....

Mark Berman‏ (@MarkBermanFox26)
Jeff Sperbeck, agent for Mike Brisiel, says Mike will visit with the Raiders tomorrow.

Mark Berman‏ (@MarkBermanFox26)
Jeff Sperbeck, agent for TE Joel Dreessen, says Joel has visit set up with Saints for this weekend.

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

I think the point missed here is that the Texans now have MORE than a typical number of players that are deserving of what they are paid (or to your point, what they ought to be paid soon).

I mean, have the Texans had such an abundance of talent in which we could easily rattle off their best 12 players before? The Texans have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league now. "Next man up" wasn't just a cool saying last season.

A healthy cap is NOT one of the fruits of your labors. In fact, making difficult cap-related decisions is such a fruit of these labors (or instead maybe a vegetable in this analogy). Good, nay great, teams have had to say goodbye to their talent bearing these fruits.

I think it's pretty clear that the team feels it has a replacement for Winston on the roster yet they do not believe they have a third #2 receiver on the roster. I expect they will look to address that via the draft and once they do we can say goodbye to Jacoby and maybe Walter as well although I expect that at the end of the day they'll keep Walter.

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

That depends on how many FAs we sign, and it depends, IIRC, on if the guys replacing the FA that left was from our roster or signed from someone else's roster.

The Texans won't get compensatory picks for the guys they cut -- Winston, Vickers, and Leinart, only (possibly) for the ones whose contracts expired.

There is some goofy formula they use. No one has ever been able to explain it to me. As point of reference, I think we got a 7th for DRob. Mario "might" be a 4th, but as stated, depends on replacement signings.